The Formula for Change

00:00 all right welcome everybody to the podcast this is the business growth factor where we are having conversations about building better businesses uh my name is Josh Leyenhorst and I'm here with lynon Smith and today we're going to be talking about something that gets me a little bit excited because it's a formula and being an accountant I like formulas and numbers and uh uh so yeah we'll dive into this the formula itself is D * V * f is greater than R so uh what does that mean well we're going to

00:31 hop into that a little bit here with uh lynon so yeah lynon why don't we just dive into it and maybe Define what that's all about and what it mean yeah Josh thanks so much and hello everyone so the um the formula that Josh just mentioned there is the formula for change and I just want to get a couple of notes here in front of me I haven't got this one 100% figured out so the formula is typically used in operational change uh management models and is popular popularized by David and Richard beckard the first time I heard of the

01:03 formulas when I worked for a company called action coach they got a bit of a variation on it so full disclaimer it's uh I we didn't come up with this it's just uh you know it's a pretty common formula that's out there and um what it really is is uh again a formula for change so um the D in that formula means uh it stands for dissatisfaction so think about the dissatisfaction of your current state the V is the vision for for what's possible uh f is the first steps or concrete actions towards making that change and then the r is the

01:37 resistance to change so your D multiplied by V multiplied by F needs to be greater than the resistance so dissatisfaction vision and first depths needs to be greater than your than your uh than the resistance at the end of the day so yeah I think uh maybe just to give you some context Josh and you can kind of just weigh in here as we're going to look before you di into context like as you explained that it almost makes it sound like it's a bit of a formula for procrastination or or for combating

02:10 procrastination right like the the movement to to make some kind of change you know there's usually some kind of barrier in the way sometimes we feel like procrastination but it seems like what what we're doing here with this formula that we're talking to today is looking at the specific drivers that uh actually impacts that and you can do to sort of address that specifically yeah there's the there's a there's always going to be some something getting in the way and um that's your resistance so that could be that procrastination that you're that you're talking about so so what is

02:42 preventing me from making a decision um maybe the dissatisfaction that I have is not great enough you know the resistance is there but the dissatisfaction Is Not Great enough um the the vision is not strong enough or I simply don't know what first steps uh to take to to to proceed and actually make this change happen um I'm I'm going to share a couple of different contexts uh with you on this on this on this um episode today the first context is going to be more of like a personal context and not necessarily business related and it's

03:15 really just so that you can understand how the formula applies in life you can use this with uh family friends you can use this in your business you can use this with prospects um fundamentally the the formula is being designed around organization change management and how you can you can you effect change within the organization with your team and I'll give you some context around an example for for that as well so the first example I'm going to give is uh think about you uh you you you've got this 20e old vehicle that is unreliable heavy on

03:49 gas it probably doesn't make you feel good when you rock up there with this old beater that's uh you know noisy doesn't look good it's uh it hasn't aged really well and um yeah there's there's a whole lot of dissatisfaction there right um the the the vision could be that you you want to be in a brand new truck or in a newer truck I'm going to use a truck because we're here in Canada but if you're in South Africa or other parts of the world it could be like a brand new BMW or a you know um a better family vehicle um you know I'm just

04:22 going to stick with the truck example for uh for the purposes of this conversation so it could be you know a vision could be in a you want to be in a brand new truck uh more powerful more economical lower maintenance costs um and it just feels good because you're in this newer brand like a newer vehicle uh the first steps could be well let me go and check my bank account let's see what uh what that looks like um maybe I don't have enough money to pay for cash I got to either lease or Finance or find some other alternatives to to get into that vehicle um find out

04:54 what you know the vehicle that I've got now what what's the value of that and you know can I get some can I trade that in or you know does it does it make sense financially uh to proceed with this that could be like part of your first steps another part of the first steps could be taking a another vehicle for a test drive and actually comparing is it is it worth it you know does it make does it make sense to to move into another vehicle or is this still you know sufficiently adequate for um what we need uh for whatever purposes that you're using the vehicle for could be a work vehicle could be family vehicle uh

05:28 you just take a look at all of those details and and make that decision there the resistance could be um along the lines of you know it's super expensive for a new vehicle I don't want to commit to that I don't want to finance another vehicle and pay all the interest on that um I don't know what other resistance factors could there be on on an example like this Jos man analysis paralysis I suppose is one of them too right I mean when you're thinking of a different vehicle you're like which one do I get and there's all these different options chose from yeah and do I go with an SUV or a truck or do we just need like a

06:03 sedan like what's what's a good fit you know so you got to go through that like you say analysis paralysis and um you got to you got to set like the the The Benchmark and say like this is what we need for for for a replacement and uh you know this is what our budget is and set all of that and then you know there are more resistance factors that that creep in over there anything else or uh I think I mean for the purposes of this example it works yeah I think that's a good summary so far as as far as this example goes for sure yeah so I mean as long as the resistance essentially is

06:38 higher than the dissatisfaction the vision and the first steps um you're never going to make that change but it might be on the cards but you don't make the change for six months a year maybe you just keep on you know going on and then you know it comes along you got to replace the tires on the vehicle and it's super expensive for a new set of tires for a truck and you're like oh my gosh you know like I I just SP another $1,500 on tires or you know whatever that looks like and it could be like maybe it's just time to make that decision or maybe something fails on the truck and then you that dissatisfaction

07:11 starts increasing that vision of course is there and you're like maybe there's a a promotion on a new uh on a new truck where they where they're giving you a massive discount or they got a clearance sale or something so now the vision is you is increasing well you we can get into something a whole lot uh nicer for for cheaper than getting really good deals out there and that's you know the strategies that these um these dealerships play on I I'd imagine I guess also by by like those deals that's also going to bring down the resistance level too right because you talk about like you know the financing

07:44 you know I don't feel like dropping this kind of money on it right now it's like now the resistance just came down because there's some kind of deal on it and so that changes the the equation as well right and then the first steps is uh you maybe you weren't happy with the with the premiums that You' have to to pay on a new vehicle you didn't want to pay as much you know if you're um purchasing the vehicle cash or you it just didn't make sense financially um the first steps that they create for you when when you're going to those dealerships is they they're giving you a whole lot of different options to consider so they're making it easier for you to make that decision so they're uh

08:19 increasing you know like the the dissatisfaction vision and and and first steps and they want to get that just enough sorry I don't know if you can see my hand on this side of the screen you but just enough that you're that you're you're tipping over and that's higher than the resistance that uh that you're you're experiencing so that's a very like um basic rudimentary kind of example that I guess anybody could uh um you know understand and and you know that context could apply in their lives um yeah any thoughts or considerations around that um yeah I think that's a a

08:54 really helpful example and just as I'm thinking through the formula and as you're explaining it just The Importance of Being able to lay out next steps is is pretty critical I mean uh you know the dissatisfaction is going to happen right that's inevitable uh helping people maybe paint the picture of the vision that they want to achieve is important yes but a lot of times like first steps are often overlooked like people don't think about the first steps that they have to uh do in order to you know move move the needle on that right

09:26 and so yeah understanding those next steps pretty important I think that was uh very helpful summarizing absolutely I mean if you take a mathematical approach to this if uh if there's zero first steps there's not going to be CH any change right yeah so there need to be value um behind like that dissatisfaction and the vision and the first steps so that you can affect that change you can make it happen but if you're not taking any First Steps guess what there ain't going to be any change that's going to happen right yeah mathematically it just it's not going to work and realistically in reality it's

09:59 also not going to work right it's it's uh so so I'm going to use another personal example there someone in my life that smokes a lot so what I do there is I create more dissatisfaction and if there's anybody in the cold that smokes you know that's entirely up to you uh but um I I create that dissatisfaction around you know um that person's in a lot of smoke around me or my family or uh you know so we we create more dissatisfaction with the intention

10:33 that you know like that resistance that's there maybe the dissatisfaction is is uh high enough for that person to make the change at some point and um yeah it's a really awful example actually I'm going to move move this to more of a a business context type example so I'm going to look at it from an operational context share an example there and then we'll look at something that's more of a client position or selling marketing type context so that uh you've got an idea of what that could

11:05 look like there so from an operations context uh you know um the formula for change could be you know we're we're introducing some new software or Technologies or we might be restructuring processes in the company dissatisfaction what that could look like is uh you know and this is something that you want to kind of amplify with your team uh because people don't like change right um inherently people you know they want to come to work they follow procedure they're done

11:39 they go home um as soon as you start introducing change it it starts creating like this unsettling feeling and uh a lot of people just simply don't like that so when you're when you're when you're going through that change management process what you really want to do is highlight the dissatisfaction of the current state so um you know you guys are feeling frustrated with the inefficient workflows outdated systems that we have or the frequent errors that we're experiencing um so you as a leader in your company want to we want to highlight or amplify that

12:12 dissatisfaction that that exists there the vision that you're creating with them is you want to create a uh you want to you want to paint this clear picture and and really like a compelling argument around um what the improved operations could look like so we we're looking at implementing a new um new system maybe it's a new CRM maybe it's a new um operations software um and you're going to share with them like this is the vision of how this is going to impact um you know their their their job and their their workflow and um really the value that it creates for them it

12:45 frees them up where they don't get uh all these inconsistencies and you know like all this administrative stuff that they got to do in their jobs so it's you got to paint the picture and really amplify the value that it's creating not only for the business because it's not about the business at this point it's about the change and making sure that people are able to yeah Buy in right so it's just uh creating a compelling um Vision around that the first steps would be um you know uh sharing like what the

13:19 tangible uh like what the tangible steps are in achieving the the transformation so going through and what the implementation is going to look like you know what um what that road map looks like to implement the new software and and training and getting everybody up to speed and making sure that everybody's on board and and really just getting people to to be part of that and owning part of that as well so getting them involved in you know um in in the whole um process of implementing right um so that that first steps and then the

13:52 resistance uh that they could have is like how's this going to impact my job right how is it uh you know uh is is it going to make my work redundant or and then your your job as a leader then is to to make sure that you've got a good enough um conversation around well it's it's it's it's not going to make your job redundant it's going to eliminate all the repetitive administrative functions that you are currently responsible for and it's going to empower you to be more successful and focus on more valuable

14:24 tasks within our business so that they can see that there's like a road map and and you know a bigger picture that you're creating for your entire organization and team because when you're in growth mode in a company your your goal is not to eliminate resources out of your business your goal is to grow your company um and improve your system so by improving your systems you might not need to bring on as many resources um but you want to be able to Leverage The the value of the resources that you've got in your business exactly

14:57 you're maximizing the use of it right not looking to eliminate it just maximize the use of it I was just thinking as you're talking there Lyndon that I think another one of those resistant uh resistance areas that uh you may see in a workplace with employees in implementing some kind of uh large change is just the amount of time that it might take to learn when you're still having to do all over your other work right a common question you'll bump into in these situations like well when are we going to have the time to actually do that right because I still have this I have this and have

15:29 this and have this right so that's one of those resistance items that's pretty common with change management for sure absolutely yeah and and and I think it's it's it's really about creating a um like a road map to to Really uh communicate you know this is we we anticipate that there's going to be a Slowdown in production or productivity um as we're we're adopting the technology and you're it's like that hockey stick curve you know we're going to our productivity is going to dip and and then we're going to get to a point where you guys are familiar with the new

16:01 new system or the new technology and things start increasing and maybe it's going to take like three or six months for everybody to get up to speed but once once we're past that like sort of productivity level that we were at before you know the the way that that amplifies is substantial and the way that we bring new resources into the company is super effective right um sometimes you need to crouch before you jump right yeah that's it 100% you got to go down a little bit before you can go back up again right

16:33 yeah yeah I love that that analogy you got to crouch before you can jump yeah all right so that's looking at it from a from an operational context and and I don't know if I did a great job explaining there but it's it's really again you want to you want to be looking at highlighting the dissatisfaction so the pain that your team are currently experiencing right you want to look at the vision that you're creating for them so by implementing this new solution technology product or whatever it is in our in our company in our in our team um this is what it's going to look like

17:05 this is the problem is it's going to solve for us you know these pains it's going to address these pains um the first steps is just creating that clear pathway like hey guys you got to understand we we're going to we're going to have a little bit of a dip in productivity we're going to have to go through a bit of a learning curve here um before things get better but this is what it looks like and this is what we're creating together as a team and getting everybody uh on board there so just having a clear pathway on on how to achieve that and then any resistance that exists there um just working through them uh like just through

17:38 conversations or you know taking them and saying all right we we've got that like let let us take a look at you know how we can you know how we can um how we can work through that together because we're like again I mean the goal if you're growing your business is not to eliminate your resources it's to make your resources utilize your resources more effectively so um that's that's really what your your goal would be I wonder if Lyon like you know even U using an example like in in your space

18:10 too right like uh having companies Implement like um you know developing their playbook or implementing standard operating procedures or Sops uh the acronym right so um you know a lot of businesses just don't have the time to do that that's going to be the resistance right like everybody wants to have nice Playbook but they just don't you know in their mind they're like I don't have the time to do this but you know the disatisfaction is you know nobody's doing things consistently around here and uh you know it seems like things are kind of going off the rails and then it's like okay let's

18:42 paint the vision of like hey you can have very consistent workflows that you can actually measure how fast they're going what the specific handoff points are right you can start to optimize it and really enhance your efficiency what are the next steps right chat with Lyndon work through your playbook right so if it becomes clear they're like oh yeah actually that's really really good then that whole resistance side of we don't have time to do this becomes less important because now you have you boosted up the other side of the the equation sorry I just H my mic boosted up the other side of the equation and uh

19:14 really helping them understand their dissatisfaction around that and maybe you know some business owners don't even necessarily understand their dissatisfaction around something like they know something's maybe not right in their business like things aren't moving as smoothly as they could be um but they they need to actually be able to Define what that dissatisfaction is yeah you order to kind of fit within I suppose that that uh formula to make it work ideally there oh absolutely um yeah 100% agree there and I think the next example

19:48 will speak more around that so um we're the next example as I mentioned we're going to look at something that's more in a sales or client acquisition context and you when when uh I'm going straight into it here so like your dissatisfaction in that respect would be um you know highlighting that pain Point how are you doing that with your marketing or sales initiatives you know um you want to be subtle but you also you you want to be direct about it so um you know uh if if you're offering uh fractional CFO Services Josh in your in

20:21 your example um or your business rather um what what pains would your clients be experiencing mm have you got a couple examples around that so yeah yeah sorry I wasn't sure if that was like rhetorical or not but yeah you have more business owners who you know they just don't have the cash flow that they need for their business growth right they don't necessarily have a pulse on how their business is doing so when opportunities pop up you know they don't know if they have the agility to to jump on those opportunities or not if

20:53 they have a cash available for it um just not understanding how to make good business decisions based on their financials it's a super common uh paino and a lot of business owners don't even necessarily know that they don't know how to define that that's an issue and so that's that's actually something we bump into when we have conversations with potential clients in our virtual CFO Services is they don't necessarily know that that's a problem until you start to talk about it and they like that's right I am bumping into this like that that is that's exactly what my

21:25 issue is I just didn't know that that's how I Define that right and sometimes you have to be able to define the the dissatisfaction before you can really help somebody with it yeah so I mean a good marketing is is all about you know hammering on those pain points it's th it's that dissatisfaction that they're experiencing in their business and and and really the next part of it is you know creating that Vision so educating them on what your product service or solution is about um and in in um in in

21:59 in your business it would be educating them on the vision of what would that look like yeah so just kind of the whole piece of mind every single month knowing where things are at and knowing specifically what to focus on to keep moving the needle towards you know improve cash flow and increase business value and so it's that knowledge each month knowing specifically what you need to be doing and uh that's the that's definitely the vision because again a lot of people don't necessarily know that they lack that vision but when they start to see that that can be a vision

22:31 that they can have for their business like that's awesome I want that yeah so I mean I just taking one step back here your dissatisfaction in your marketing is all about uh you know touching on those pain points that your your prospect or your targets might be experiencing your vision when you're when you're marketing is uh all around you know educating them on how your product service or solution could address or resolve that problem that they're experiencing and um yeah the the

23:05 next part is like the the the first steps right so creating that clear actionable Road road map or um you know those those that process for them to follow so that they clearly understand we're going to start here this is what is required From Me Maybe in terms of uh time commitment in terms of um Financial commitment uh commitment of resources that could be you know your employees and um your team how much time do they require to to you know to bring this online or to to make this change happen

23:38 just being clear on like what those first steps look like and having a clear road map for your for your client or your prospect or Target rather um and and again bringing it back into customer acquisition or sales or marketing when you're when you're going through these steps here it's it's really valuable for for you to have all of this out outlined here so that uh so that it's you're you're elevating this above the the resistance so that that form formula starts starts working right I guess for anyone listening who might be familiar

24:10 with uh Donald Miller with the whole story brand framework I mean that's a pretty key part of it right is like the next three things right here are the three steps that you need to take in order to get from here to here and having those next steps because without them you know people know okay I am dissatisfied like there's something that's not right here I needed to be fixed this looks really good I want that to happen but if you don't have the next steps you're just going to be dissatisfied and wanting something better that you know is better U but this those next steps and and I think

24:42 you know for anyone again listening who's familiar with the whole story about framework it's a it's a really important thing to emphasize like these are the next three things to do kind of move you along that Journey yeah excellent and then uh the the the last part of it is obviously there is resistance again so um in your marketing or like your sales uh initiatives that you have you want want to understand what what resistance your your prospects or targets what they have um to to proceed or to take those next steps

25:14 would be right so it could be I don't know this company or I don't know that I I have this problem or it could be that uh I don't trust these people or I I just don't have the time to commit to making this change change in my business or any of the you know like you it could be anything right and the more you have those conversations with uh your targets and Prospects those are objections that are going to come in your direction you want to make sure that you're documenting those objections and you're you're you're you're changing your

25:47 dialogue or conversation to address that so if it's I don't have enough time for example um you know introducing Sops and and creating a business play I don't have the time for that you like we're we're firefighting we're totally focused on you know the operations and delivering everything in our business or the reason you you're doing that is because you know what's that good old uh that good old saying there's there's never time to do it right but there's always time to fix it yeah there's never time to plan adequately um but there's always time to figure it out like you

26:20 know on the Fly and then that that ends up taking a lot more time and it it just it's it's a mind shift of Who You Who you're being in your business um and and what you're committing your time to so you know instead of just addressing everything that's urgent and important um allocating like 20% of your time or even as little as 5 or 10% of your week to developing uh procedures so that you start creating that that consistency um with your with your team that you have that knowledge and information available

26:52 for your team so now you start buying back your time because you have a consistent standard or a standard in place and you can share that standard with your team so instead of investing 30 hours seven times now you're just in sorry not 30 hours 30 minutes seven times um now you're just doing it once or maybe like double that to create the procedure the standard and you can just share that consistently so you do the work once and you get uh you know you get the the value from that forever right yeah for sure I heard it what I heard it said if you have to do

27:25 something more than once then create a system for right cre yeah yeah document repeatable processes full stop yeah there you go yeah good um yeah so I hope that was a good enough explanation around um you know just a nice personal example with a car um we' got an operational example where you where you're looking at change management internally within your business and then you've got a um like a customer acquisition example there where we're looking at uh change how how do

27:59 you how do you affect that change or how do you uh Empower your your targets or prospects to make that change and it could even be with existing clients right maybe you've been working with them for a whole long time and now it's like what we want to we want to shift them into something bigger better you know more powerful um how do how do how do we make that change how do we get them from here to there um and and and you just take a look at this formula and it's like the the dissatisfaction and the vision needs to uh plus multiplied

28:32 by your first steps so create that road map for them and then understand what what resistance factors are in place and how you can start overcoming that resistance factors so you want to lower the the the resistance and you want to increase and amplify um and create that uh you know in increase and amplify the dissatisfaction the vision and the first steps make that super clear and then um you know that's when you start reaching that Tipping Point I suppose like a good strategy with the whole resistance side of it like from a sales and marketing

29:03 strategy is um or perspective rather is um you know the email drip campaign sort of approach right where if feel like okay so uh here we have a prospect and we have the ability to communicate with them these are like the five key areas of resistance that we typically encounter uh you know when when working with potential client um so you can start to proactively send communication out say email um or whether it's like your social media marketing or whatever it might be to just get people familiar with like how to to to basically

29:37 communicate um how to how to navigate the those resistance items right so you know if if thinking it might take too much time might be one of the objections right um making it clear here's how we can actually uh expediate the process right or or make it take less time if uh you know if a concern is around price it's like like okay well actually we have a few options there sort of like a ladder of options so you're not just coming in at a high price point you know you can actually come in here and still be well served in your business and so if you can address those different areas

30:10 of concern of a potential client you know you're kind of reducing that um uh resistance side of it and then if you can do a good job of really helping identify the dissatisfaction and helping paint that picture and have clear next steps on uh on the road map you know you you've already proactively brought down that resistance level and uh that that could be a good um I guess what I'm doing is I'm I'm trying to take like some of the the sales and marketing strategies that are out there and tie it into this formula of how it can be used strategically there and that might be a

30:43 good way to draw down the resistance side well the the best way to do it is uh you know just uh grab a pen and paper and then write the formula at the top split it up into columns and then uh under each column so for dissatisfaction like what what to satisfaction do our clients normally experience and and write down as many points as what you can there um what is the vision what Vision are we creating for them through the product service or um solution that we're we're offering them and write that all down there and then uh First Steps so what are the first steps um you know

31:18 make make sure it's super clear and you've got a bit like a road map rather um you know for them to to take those first steps it could be you know have that discovery it could be you know we we've got to do a demo we've got to it all depends on your business right but what are those first steps and then what are the resistance factors that that we consider here so and that could be that could be through uh ongoing conversations like so you we've gone through this entire exercise with you you seem Keen you seem interested like

31:50 what what what's holding you back and you get those uh you get that feedback from them or maybe they decide you like you you once you've gotten a no from them understand like um you know why did you get that no like what is What is there what is uh preventing them from making that decision document that and then that's where you can start working on maybe a bit of marketing maybe dialing in your sales process um so that it's it's more effective um maybe you're bringing some of that stuff up earlier on so that the resistance uh is being eliminated earlier on in the

32:23 conversations so it all depends on your business what you're doing what you're selling what you're out there to um you know to to enroll people in uh at the end of the day and um yeah it's I like that I like I like how it's like you could take the framework and yeah like a good takeaway put it in columns like put on a piece of paper put a column for each of these uh variables and actually lay out specific details because it'll probably really help anyone who does that refine their messaging uh refine their value proposition right uh help

32:58 understand how to best communicate with potential clients how they can serve them best and even maybe help refine how to filter out who might not be a good that yeah you you don't want to bring on the awful clients yes yeah they're just going to consume your time um yeah so so what do you think uh like top takeaways for today are Josh yeah I I I think it was that like just in going through this I mean I think uh the importance of the first steps uh not not to deemphasize the other variables of course because

33:31 they're all equally weighted in the formula but um the importance of the next steps making sure that that is available because you know typically in our uh field with accounting and finance and uh virtual CFO services like typically you're you will have people who feel dissatisfied in some way you got to help them Define that um help them kind of paint the picture but it's the next steps that really help people like okay this is the next thing I do this is the next thing I do make sure they're reasonable next steps that aren't like massive barriers um yeah and that you know but then I think also like taking the formula I like this idea that

34:02 you just mentioned you know putting it in the column and and uh itemizing specific details under each of those headers under each of the variables um I think that' be a very valuable exercise I'm gonna make sure I do that this week yeah how about yourself and uh you know just just a comment on on the first step side of things if you if you don't if you have zero under the first steps your your your change is not going to happen so just a reminder that each section there you need to have like it it they work together to to make the change to

34:35 happen right your goal in your business is to to make those first steps as easy as possible you you want to eliminate the barriers for them to have any doubt or anything like that you just you want to make those first steps to engage or sign on with your business or purchase your project you want to make that super easy so for them to to to to engage and make those F take those first steps must be exceptionally easy yeah um yeah takeaways from my side or maybe what I'd like to leave everyone with is you know this this formula for change it's uh

35:08 it's it's not just uh business context or business related you can you can look at this in your life you know maybe there's a change that you need to make maybe you want to exercise more and there's like some resistance factors it's super comfortable sitting on the couch and slamming a a beer or a chocolate or something like that and watching television after a long day work but there's like the dissatisfaction Vision First Steps like you can you can start applying that formula and understanding how you can make that change happen or um yeah really you can apply it in your personal

35:41 life you can apply it in your business um internally in your business from an operational cont operational context in a in a sales context you can understand like the psychology of your your clients or your prospects rather and uh you can start designing your Market marketing and your initiatives around that psychology which is really really cool when you start digging into that it's like wow you know like I never thought of these things um yeah jump in there Lyon uh using that the exercising example because I think this is a

36:15 classic one that everybody can kind of wrap their brains around uh you know that resistance level even you know when we started a pretty regimented uh Fitness routine like on on this end like for myself in particular you know I one of my resistance things was like I need to reduce resistance as much as I can because like everyone's challenge so even like as much as like putting my exercise clothes on the floor by my bed so when I get out of bed like there they are I'm not like thinking steing straight your like it's all there and then also

36:49 you know Finding uh somebody that you can do it with and so then that's like another person who can there accountability there it further breaks down the resistance because they're going to be pulling you a little bit more you know it's not just you with the friction so uh good example on the fitness front there for sure that's awesome I think we could wrap it up here Josh um I hope there's uh I trust there's some value that people can take from this conversation today and you can like I say apply it in both your business uh in a business context internally and externally um and in your in your

37:21 personal lives as well excellent well thanks for the conversation Lyndon and yeah thanks for everybody who is listen listening and um our contact information will be in the description in the podcast here and if you have any questions feel free to reach out yeah all right awesome thanks Josh thanks everyone